X3 Reunion: New Rolling Demo Tested

by Josh Venning on 1/25/2006 12:05 AM EST
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  • Michael - Saturday, January 28, 2006 - link

    Go to Egosoft's website and you'll see the countless reports of the current bugs in the game. The developers seem to be working on them, but I question using the engine for any testing right now when there's no way to know exactly what is broken behind the scenes. I suppose the "rolling demo" is OK because the same code is there for all the benchmarking, but it is not an accurate indication of what the different cards may do in the actual game as the game itself is unstable. X3 should never have been released in the condition it was in. Even the manual was very messed up.

    That said, I did appreciate the range of different CPUs and cards tested.

    Michael
  • kgrach - Tuesday, February 7, 2006 - link

    X3 gets worse by the day. The game installed a nasty anti-copy protection sceme called starforce. THIS IS THE USA VERSION WHICH IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
    it has major problems with SCSI and SATA systems.

    Gets better, everybody who has problem with loading the games is told to email starforce the error dump from starforce.

    I took a look at what starforce reports back to the software company in Russia.
    Name address of registered owner
    all hardware
    all drivers
    All errors that have acured
    all software running on the machine currently

    okay i understand that
    All software installed on machine and who it is registered to.
    all users on machine and status admin user
    all network settings
    firewall settings and security levels
    All security software settings

    not good very nervouse about giving that info out but the reall kicker is of the four
    names it pulled out of the hundreds in my favorites and history to put in the error report no they are not the latest or first in my history.

    Two antivirus sites
    My bank
    My mutual fund

    X3 has now gone beyond bad programing right up to serious malware.
    I Now looking on who to contact at the state attorney general.

    Kgrach
  • SpareFlair - Friday, January 27, 2006 - link

    For those that think the game looks a bit dry from the rolling demo, the gameplay is actually much different and can't really be explained. The universe is huge, made of hundreds of sectors and there is a thing called artifical life that runs the whole universe and keeps track of every ship in it and everything it does so it's a real working economy...while there's also a war going on between several species.

    There will be a playable demo released soon, which also won't be that indicative of full gameplay but basically it gives you a few ships and you have to defend against waves of enemies while building up your economic empire (to afford forces) in between waves. The real game is nothing at all like this, but it will let you experience combat and some elements of the economy and station/ship building.

    Personally my favorite part about this game is that it's finally a space sim where you can scare the enemy pilots into ejecting. Then you can steal their ship and run over their space-suit...or capture then and sell them into slavery.

    Regarding the Anandtech article, it looks like this will be a good benchmark for both CPU and videocard reviews. Hopefully some more SLI and dual core information will come up.
  • kgrach - Saturday, February 4, 2006 - link

    Don't bother buying this game it has a horrible interface on top of many problems.
    Example in the middle of combat a help box pops up in the middle of the screen to give you a helpful tip to close said box that is now obstructing your view.
    Right click your mouse button to disable ship control. Yes you heard me right, disable ship control in the middle of COMBAT. Then move the mouse pointer to close icon and left click.
    oh did I mention that while you are doing this your ship stops all forward movement. So not only do you have no control of you vessel you are a sitting duck.

    The helpful tip in combat was to tell me not to forget to turn on the rear turret.
    good advice except it failed to mention how to accomplish that feat.

    The game starts with a very complicated screen of which you have no idea what does what since the few tiny pictures in the manual of the icons don't show you much as they take a 1280 X 1280 resolution color screen shrink it to 3/4 inch smeary B&W square of BLACK SPACE and you have to try to figure out what means what by the brief description. You start with a simple mision of going to a warp gate and escorting some newbies around how you are supposed to do that and how do you even know where that stargate is is a mystery that they don't bother to explain to you.

    There was supposed to be some simulations that teach you basic stuff like navigation ship controls,docking and trading. But none of that has made it into the game or the manual yet.

    Also insult upon injury the controls don't match what the manual say's they do.
    So even thought they don't tell you how things works that is made more complicated that they don't even match.

    So you say simply go into the game control screen and remap the buttons which BTW is only accesable during live game play.

    You can pause the game. but the instant you call up the menu for changing the controls it unpauses the game.


    Anybody wants the game just pay for postage you can have my copy on the condition you give it a full review.

    Ohh I forgot to mention the entriging plot. Get this your father while playing with an expiremental ship is blasted to an unknow part of space and while trying to find his way back to earth saves that section of space. while in this unknow section of space he finds you his long lost son. how you got there and the rest of the humans is a question mark since they don't explain that. there is a reference of leading the bad guys away from earth but I thought you didn't know the way home and of course you can't ask dad becuase hes in a coma and your best friend is dead. Oh since your father was rich would make the game way to easy they had all of your factories destroyed by some uknown enemy.

    If you think the plot is bad that is nothing compared to the intro animation.
    It makes me long for my C64 of course. The animations where better on the C64. also on the C64 the music didn't drown out the dialog. Which once the animation played and Iwas in the game proper I could now reset the sound setting so that the music wasn't set at 84 and the dialog set at 80. Now I could replay the awful animation and listen to even worse dialog.


    STAY AWAY FROM THIS GAME AT ALL COSTS.

    Has a good idea good graphic engine but I think the game was launched when the code was still pre alpha. The game is not even good enought for beta status yet.



    kgrach
  • phusg - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    Any chance of testing this game with a dual core/CPU setup? I'd be very to see if this CPU bound game is multi-threaded.
  • coldpower27 - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    Yes since it was an Athlon FX 55 that was used there should be no penalties for using the Athlon FX 60.
  • VIAN - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    At least the demo sucked, and that's enough for me not to buy the game.
  • boinkle - Thursday, January 26, 2006 - link

    Heh. Looks a bit dry doesn't it... graphics are reasonable though.

    Main problem I have is, I'm severely CPU limited using an Athlon 64/2.35GHz. My x800GTO2 runs this at the same framerate at 10*7/noaa/noaf, and 12*10/*8/*16.

    There must be some insane physics going on behind the scenes...
  • phusg - Saturday, January 28, 2006 - link

    > insane physics

    Hmmm, maybe, but then I wouldn't have thought the physics in a vacuum could get all that complicated (as long as the number of on screen objects is low enough of course). I'd imagine the AI keeping track of all the economies/wars etc is what's hitting the CPU...
  • robg1701 - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    Any chance of having scores added for the X1900XT. I realise there arent enough cards to go round but, releasing a benchmark roundup the day after the latest and greatest, you kinda expect it to be included. Especially when it mixes the hardware structure up compared to its peers the way that R580 does with its many pixel shaders.
  • Houdani - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    And while you're at it, fill in the 12x10 graph with the rest of the cards which were omitted, rather than just benching the low end and high end cards (we in the middle would like to see how our cards fare). Much obliged.
  • Lalakai - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    I've been waiting for this game to come out for months, and now learn that during install process, a copy protection system may be installed (rootkit/starforce) on your system. I haven't been able to confirm this, and currently have that question posted to the company. I'm constantly making the kids made because i won't let 'em copy music cd's or games, and i support anti-piracy efforts, but to have a company try to hide software on my system...........regardless of how good the game is, i'll vote with my pocketbook and leave it on the shelf.
  • DerekWilson - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    AFAIK only the EU version of X3 employs StarForce.

    As much as I hate and dispise StarForce (it makes testing very difficult), it is not a rootkit. There has been much debate online about possible malicious uses for SF, but (unfortunately) none have been found.

    Why is it unfortunate that no SF is not a rootkit? Because that would be the best and easiest way to fight it. I wish it were as bad a situation as the Sony DRM problem ... but people need to get as upset about having their fair use rights trampled on as they do about opening their system up to hackers if there is going to be anything done about StarForce.

    Obviously our focus here at AT is hardware, but I'll get up on my soap box and yell about how DRM in general is a waste of time and money. Storage, memory, CPU cycles, and other resources are wasted on implimenting hardware and software that doesn't do anything to stop real pirates (those who copy and sell media or games for profit).

    For online games checking cd keys against others online already is an effective means for keeping copying down without getting in the way of people who want to make copies of their media and wasting the resources of system on which the software is installed.

    But that's as far as copy protection should go.

    The answer is education. If companies dumped all the money they are wasting on DRM into educating the public about their own rights and making them feel good about being consumers, a whole lot more would get done.

    Copiers, scanners, typewriters, printers, and pen and paper are every where ... how has the publishing industry survived for so long without copy protection?

    The problem is the industry itself and the attiude of the public.
  • aka1nas - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    Actually ALL versions of X3 currently being published employ starforce. Both the US CD and DVD versions use it as well as the Australian version.
  • Lalakai - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    easiest way to get message across is through market pressure. Gamers are constantly demanding better graphics, sound, and speed; this demand should also be linked to system privacy and individual rights. I have no qualms accepting anti-piracy protections and education. Protection shouldn't extend to installing specific protection software on the system, and if the programers feel this is their best option, then the response should be purchase of games and products that do not incorporate these means. As much as I enjoy X2 and have looked forward to X3, i'll likely let it slide and voice my opinion on every board that i participate in.
  • DerekWilson - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    X2 used StarForce as well ...

    And programmers don't usually decide what copy protection the publisher/distributor is going to use.
  • Lalakai - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    lol just had to torment me didn't ya :~(

    guess i'm gonna have to be a little less trusting, and more investigative before using software. might be time to revisit EOC and Freelancer for awhile

    ............ummmm, now i gotta check and see if they also used StarForce.

    thanks though for the info
  • alexhall50 - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link


    StarForce is used to copy protect X3. If you look on the Egosoft forums then you will see that there have been a number of "conversations" on this topic. However the copy protection system used is not determined by the developer, rather it is determined by the Publisher. As such EgoSoft don't have much say on this. (At least that is my understanding).

    regards

    Alex
  • Phiro - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    That I disagree with - that's the same thing as a hooker saying "sorry baby I can't do rodeo style because my pimp won't let me".

    Publishers do not MAKE the development company do anything - the development company signed the fucking contract with their eyes WIDE OPEN.
  • alexhall50 - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link


    X3 does support SLI, however it does not (currently) support multi-monitor gaming (in the way X2 did) or widescreen support (although this will hopefully come in a patch).

    I have a question on this benchmark review...

    X3 has an option to automatically adjust the quality control of the game and some other graphics tweaks that are not explicitly mentioned within the review as to whether they were used.

    So specifically was Auto Quality Control used within X3 for these benchmarks as this would help improve the scores of the less powerful cards?

    I have an AMD64 3500XP+, 2GB RAM and a 7800GT graphics card. While my average framerate is around 30-35 (1280*1024, 4AA, 4AF, all settings high) I do notice extreme slowdown and jerkiness during the rolling demo.

    regards

    Alex
  • feraltoad - Thursday, January 26, 2006 - link

    It supports widescreen. 1680x1050 Was available for my monitor.
  • Shooks - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    any idea if there is something you must do to enable SLI for this benchmark, because I am getting the same #'s that a single 7800GTX got. I chose multi-gpu rendering from the nvidia panel, but still no luck!
  • alexhall50 - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link


    I don't have SLI myself so can't answer specifically. I know this has been discussed on the Egosoft support forums and people have mentioned how to make the relevant profile.

    regards

    Alex
  • Diasper - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    As more patches are released for X3 the more performance is improved - so this demo could well be using older code that later game patches have optimised/improved.

    One interesting thing about the X series of games is that they come out incredibly buggy (developer involvement I suspect) but that the patches after correct it immensely such that by 1.3 it's pretty damn good (currently the 1.3.1 beta patch) but by 1.4 pretty much everything is fixed with plenty of added content from the original.

    Egosoft are good developers like that. Probably means now is a goodish time to pick up X3 - if you buy it from their website is it cheaper?
  • Samadhi - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    Where were the screenshots of the demo in action. There were a number of comments about how beautiful the graphics are, so it would have been nice to have had a couple of examples to see as well.
  • SLIM - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed the complete lack of screenshots for this uber beautiful magnificent looking game...

    I guess I can download it when I get home tomorrow, but a screenie or two in the review would be nice.

    JM
  • DerekWilson - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    ...

    if(your_wish == our_command)
    postScreenies();

    ...
  • feraltoad - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    ? I guess I've been spoiled by the demos of late (e.g. Bf2, Fear etc.) I was kinda expecting to get 2 play a little see if I liked it. :( Just rolls through some footage of the game, albeit beautifully so. :) U certainly won't regret downloading it. O and it actually has widescreen support! 1680x1050 was an option, like it should be!
  • Shooks - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    Does this program take advantage of SLI? I ran it and I got the same scores for a single 7800GTX 256MB?
  • Sunrise089 - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    You did two things that are terrific to see at anandtech in this review, short as it was:

    1) You tested on a very wide range of cards, no SLI/Crossfire or X850 series, but still almost all of the newer single card solutions

    and

    2) You tested with different CPU speeds.

    I don't know how much longer this took, and I would obviousely like to see CPU speeds combined with video card speeds, but this is still a great step in the right direction.
  • Bull Dog - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    Amazing how well of a fight that the X1600XT puts up. I own one currently and its a decent card for the price (remember its positioned about $30-$40 LESS than the 6800GS.
  • munky - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    I'm surprised too how well the x1600 does. The x1900's will probably dominate in this game by a wide margin.
  • tuteja1986 - Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - link

    I am getting my 1900XT :) but anyways i love X3 :) own the game and finsihed it. It looks awesome :)
  • Larso - Thursday, January 26, 2006 - link

    So you have finished the game? Can you tell us if we finally have a new space trading game that actually trancends C64 Elite?

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