Clearly not. AMD has only recently caught up and surpassed Intel in some ways. For many companies legacy and stability, or low power performance, oftentimes count for more than outright performance. That's just reality.
Needs are also in eye of beholder, maybe they caught up desktop gaming machine, some may say even in servers - but mobile platform I would say not even close.
But this effort is good for industry, it keeps Intel and even NVidia on its feet. But GPU area AMD severely lacks compared to NVIdia
But times like this are not new, and example is when AMD first went to onboard memory controllers and 64bit??? at the time 64 bit was that much in demand but time has shown it is need - but as developer myself - I believe 64 bit has made developers lazy to not worry about memory needs. As for onboard memory controller - well that natural evolution of CPU - Intel future chips have Thunderbolt built in and with USB 4 around the corner, so will AMD.
It all depending on how you look at things. People have different opinions and Internet is full of opinion including my own. One must take their own path and not from others and this includes computers.
Pardon me? I don't understand the choice of using Intel's CPU's especially when they cost about a DOUBLE more than what AMD offers, have pretty much similar or lower performance, AMD's also consume less power, and let's not forget that Intel's CPU's are far more prone to security vulnerabilities than AMD (and Intel suffered about 15% drop in performance because of the security patches... whereas AMD suffered only 3% drop).
There is no justifiable argument for using Intel, unless of course we're either talking about 'brand loyalty' and 'being paid to use that hw'.
x86 processors are largely commodity products purchased primarily on the basis of computing costs vs power. The most stable things about Intel at the moment are the regularity with which you can expect to hear new HW security vulnerabilities announced and the regularity with which roadmap milestones will be postponed.
That is not what I am implying and that attituded is why I don't care for AMD. But it does not mean if AMD fits the need then I will not used it.
I do have an AMD CPU / GPU and it fits a specific need - Xbox One S., But I have grown up over games and the need before 4k HD but that need has matured to Samsung 4k Players. But this discussion has got me curious how Xbox One S uses Dolby Atmos on my LG sk-10y.
" That is not what I am implying and that attituded is why I don't care for AMD. But it does not mean if AMD fits the need then I will not used it. " i call BS here.. you dont use AMD because you love intel.. if amd had the better products from top to bottom.. you would STILL bash amd.. it shows in 90% of the posts you write on this site.. even when its clear amd is better then intel.. or the choice is clearly better to go with amd.. you still bash amd.. and praise intel... when amd does something before intel.. you downplay it.. and say something pro intel about it.. you are the definition of an intel fanboy...
brown bar... you obviously have seen his many other pro intel/intel is god of the cpu posts, have you ?? he is the poster child for the intel fanboy...
skavi... HStewart.. doesnt understand that... he ONLY sees intel as the best.. even when intel isnt the best.. like now... he will always praise intel...
fact is, without x86 AMD would have never been "born" and without AMD and many years of fine tuning/pushing Intel to do better, along with their x64 that most folks using 64 bit computing at all owes AMD a high five, big time......
Either way, Intel and AMD have very deep cross/dual licensing otherwise b0oth of them would be in courtrooms round the world non stop, they are not ^.^
It’s bragging rights for both, so the product existing is a boon to both. If it takes off in popularity then Intel can brag about how even their fiercest competitors see the value in their platform and AMD can Humble brag about how their PCIe lane support makes this a perfect fit.
I doubt either would care. This is a case of a box maker taking a chassis they originally designed for Xeon processors and swapping out the motherboard for one with an AMD processor. Here is a link to the Xeon based system: https://echostreams.com/collections/flachestreams-...
Intel would make far more profit than AMD from that system. The price of the big batch of SSDs way exceeds the price of the AMD cpu. AMD gets bragging rights - Intel gets the cash.
Comparing that to the size of m.2 drives (that reach 2TB single-sided), 8TB per drive seems ... low. But I guess few are willing to risk much more storage than that (or, well, twice that, given 16TB HDDs) on a single device, no matter the redundancy. Still, the form factor ought to fit tens of GB easily.
108??? Sure looks like 72 to me, but 108 would be even worse:
This architecture makes no sense for a 2U box, let's assume 2M hours MTBF/drive, now you've got 72 drives so your effective MTBF comes all the way down to a mere 27.7K hours not to mention there is no way to take advantage of the performance of all 72 of those drives, resulting in a lots of expensive drives with powerful NVMe ASICs going to waste.
You are better off going with fewer drives to match the performance capabilities of the server, i.e. right size the CPU and storage, this config results in a very mismatched setup and strands performance of that expensive NAND.
If you have gigantic data that you absolutely must have maximum random IO performance on... it absolutely makes sense. It also would probably make sense as a storage node in a supercomputerm, or perhaps as a cache for frequenly reloaded data that doesn't need to be memory resident constantly but is acessed frequently enough that it can't be pushed out to cold storage.
"as a cache for frequenly reloaded data that doesn't need to be memory resident constantly but is acessed frequently enough that it can't be pushed out to cold storage."
Yes, this is what needs bearing in mind I suspect. It is almost as good as ram if it is not being rewritten all the time. Some categories of use can fry them pretty fast.
I dont think you meant cold storage tho - that is the extreme bottom rung tier of storage - the warehouse/attic.
"This architecture makes no sense for a 2U box, let's assume 2M hours MTBF/drive, now you've got 72 drives so your effective MTBF comes all the way down to a mere 27.7K hours not to mention there is no way to take advantage of the performance of all 72 of those drives, resulting in a lots of expensive drives with powerful NVMe ASICs going to waste." 27.7K hours still means 3 years for your MTBF. That is going to be far higher than having that many spinning disks in a SAN. Also you can have 2 of these boxes to serve out vSAN storage to your other hosts. With 30GB/sec of storage speed you would need 400Gb Ethernet to fully take advantage of that storage speed.
Maybe not a bit later tho - it is ~only a format. Primarily it seems about cooling increasingly powerful nand storage devices (8TB isnt radically bigger than m.2 products considering their length), already a throttling issue on consumer desktops.
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36 Comments
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versalife - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Wait. That's illegal.Kappa
HStewart - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
No there is nothing illegal about that, what about Intel 8705G with AMD GPU in it and created by Intel.I bet there is a lot AMD CPU systems out there with NVidia GPU's also.
Even though I don't like it Apple uses Intel CPU with AMD GPU - there is nothing bad about that it .
The thing is company's pick the best device for there needs.
Hifihedgehog - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
"The thing is company's pick the best device for there needs."And that device is AMD processors, not Intel ones. ;P
niva - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Clearly not. AMD has only recently caught up and surpassed Intel in some ways. For many companies legacy and stability, or low power performance, oftentimes count for more than outright performance. That's just reality.HStewart - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Needs are also in eye of beholder, maybe they caught up desktop gaming machine, some may say even in servers - but mobile platform I would say not even close.But this effort is good for industry, it keeps Intel and even NVidia on its feet. But GPU area AMD severely lacks compared to NVIdia
But times like this are not new, and example is when AMD first went to onboard memory controllers and 64bit??? at the time 64 bit was that much in demand but time has shown it is need - but as developer myself - I believe 64 bit has made developers lazy to not worry about memory needs. As for onboard memory controller - well that natural evolution of CPU - Intel future chips have Thunderbolt built in and with USB 4 around the corner, so will AMD.
It all depending on how you look at things. People have different opinions and Internet is full of opinion including my own. One must take their own path and not from others and this includes computers.
wanderer66 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Heh, even our internal build shares still drop "x86" and "amd64" bits :-)HStewart - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
One more thing about companies, sometimes they have many installations and it is impossible to upgrade - this is clearly been seen in Windows.deksman2 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Pardon me?I don't understand the choice of using Intel's CPU's especially when they cost about a DOUBLE more than what AMD offers, have pretty much similar or lower performance, AMD's also consume less power, and let's not forget that Intel's CPU's are far more prone to security vulnerabilities than AMD (and Intel suffered about 15% drop in performance because of the security patches... whereas AMD suffered only 3% drop).
There is no justifiable argument for using Intel, unless of course we're either talking about 'brand loyalty' and 'being paid to use that hw'.
OutOfTheBox - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
x86 processors are largely commodity products purchased primarily on the basis of computing costs vs power. The most stable things about Intel at the moment are the regularity with which you can expect to hear new HW security vulnerabilities announced and the regularity with which roadmap milestones will be postponed.HStewart - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
That is not what I am implying and that attituded is why I don't care for AMD. But it does not mean if AMD fits the need then I will not used it.I do have an AMD CPU / GPU and it fits a specific need - Xbox One S., But I have grown up over games and the need before 4k HD but that need has matured to Samsung 4k Players. But this discussion has got me curious how Xbox One S uses Dolby Atmos on my LG sk-10y.
Korguz - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
" That is not what I am implying and that attituded is why I don't care for AMD. But it does not mean if AMD fits the need then I will not used it. " i call BS here.. you dont use AMD because you love intel.. if amd had the better products from top to bottom.. you would STILL bash amd.. it shows in 90% of the posts you write on this site.. even when its clear amd is better then intel.. or the choice is clearly better to go with amd.. you still bash amd.. and praise intel... when amd does something before intel.. you downplay it.. and say something pro intel about it.. you are the definition of an intel fanboy...Brown bar - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Maybe if you tried an AMD cpu you'd have more money and wouldn't have to use a cheap and utterly ridiculous sound bar.I feel for you though. Everyone calls you an Intel fanboy, but in reality, no one likes their boss.
Korguz - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
brown bar...you obviously have seen his many other pro intel/intel is god of the cpu posts, have you ?? he is the poster child for the intel fanboy...
skavi - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
you typed that all out without considering that maybe versalife was joking?Korguz - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
skavi... HStewart.. doesnt understand that... he ONLY sees intel as the best.. even when intel isnt the best.. like now... he will always praise intel...Hifihedgehog - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
HStewart: The Mournful Tale of a Blind Intel FanboyDragonstongue - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
fact is, without x86 AMD would have never been "born" and without AMD and many years of fine tuning/pushing Intel to do better, along with their x64 that most folks using 64 bit computing at all owes AMD a high five, big time......Either way, Intel and AMD have very deep cross/dual licensing otherwise b0oth of them would be in courtrooms round the world non stop, they are not ^.^
DanNeely - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
I wonder what Intel and AMD PR would have to say about this.imaheadcase - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Nothing if both are making money. :PLakados - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
It’s bragging rights for both, so the product existing is a boon to both. If it takes off in popularity then Intel can brag about how even their fiercest competitors see the value in their platform and AMD can Humble brag about how their PCIe lane support makes this a perfect fit.ilt24 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
I doubt either would care. This is a case of a box maker taking a chassis they originally designed for Xeon processors and swapping out the motherboard for one with an AMD processor. Here is a link to the Xeon based system: https://echostreams.com/collections/flachestreams-...Atari2600 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Credit where it is due.Good work on the form factor innovation Intel.
Atari2600 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
[from someone who still hasn't forgiven them for the illegal sh1te they were at in the early 2000s]scottpar28 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Forget Intel and put the Micron(3dxpoint) version on there. no complaintsDuncan Macdonald - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Intel would make far more profit than AMD from that system. The price of the big batch of SSDs way exceeds the price of the AMD cpu. AMD gets bragging rights - Intel gets the cash.DigitalFreak - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Almost a pedobyte of storage.Brown bar - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Only the Vatican uses "pedobyte" its petabyte in the rest of the developed world.msroadkill612 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
8 naughty bits.Valantar - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
Comparing that to the size of m.2 drives (that reach 2TB single-sided), 8TB per drive seems ... low. But I guess few are willing to risk much more storage than that (or, well, twice that, given 16TB HDDs) on a single device, no matter the redundancy. Still, the form factor ought to fit tens of GB easily.nextgentech - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
108??? Sure looks like 72 to me, but 108 would be even worse:This architecture makes no sense for a 2U box, let's assume 2M hours MTBF/drive, now you've got 72 drives so your effective MTBF comes all the way down to a mere 27.7K hours not to mention there is no way to take advantage of the performance of all 72 of those drives, resulting in a lots of expensive drives with powerful NVMe ASICs going to waste.
You are better off going with fewer drives to match the performance capabilities of the server, i.e. right size the CPU and storage, this config results in a very mismatched setup and strands performance of that expensive NAND.
ilt24 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
@nextgentech..."108??? Sure looks like 72 to me"72 in the front and 36 in the back.
cb88 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
If you have gigantic data that you absolutely must have maximum random IO performance on... it absolutely makes sense. It also would probably make sense as a storage node in a supercomputerm, or perhaps as a cache for frequenly reloaded data that doesn't need to be memory resident constantly but is acessed frequently enough that it can't be pushed out to cold storage.msroadkill612 - Saturday, June 8, 2019 - link
"as a cache for frequenly reloaded data that doesn't need to be memory resident constantly but is acessed frequently enough that it can't be pushed out to cold storage."Yes, this is what needs bearing in mind I suspect. It is almost as good as ram if it is not being rewritten all the time. Some categories of use can fry them pretty fast.
I dont think you meant cold storage tho - that is the extreme bottom rung tier of storage - the warehouse/attic.
schujj07 - Friday, June 7, 2019 - link
"This architecture makes no sense for a 2U box, let's assume 2M hours MTBF/drive, now you've got 72 drives so your effective MTBF comes all the way down to a mere 27.7K hours not to mention there is no way to take advantage of the performance of all 72 of those drives, resulting in a lots of expensive drives with powerful NVMe ASICs going to waste."27.7K hours still means 3 years for your MTBF. That is going to be far higher than having that many spinning disks in a SAN. Also you can have 2 of these boxes to serve out vSAN storage to your other hosts. With 30GB/sec of storage speed you would need 400Gb Ethernet to fully take advantage of that storage speed.
urbanman2004 - Thursday, June 6, 2019 - link
I'm sure the AMD EPYC server and a few of those ruler SSD's are probably beyond my pay grademsroadkill612 - Saturday, June 8, 2019 - link
Maybe not a bit later tho - it is ~only a format.Primarily it seems about cooling increasingly powerful nand storage devices (8TB isnt radically bigger than m.2 products considering their length), already a throttling issue on consumer desktops.