Talking 12nm and Zen+

One of the highlights of the Ryzen 2000-series launch is that these processors use GlobalFoundries’ 12LP manufacturing process, compared to the 14LPP process used for the first generation of Ryzen processors. Both AMD and GlobalFoundries have discussed the differences in the processes, however it is worth understanding that each company has different goals: AMD only needs to promote what helps its products, whereas GlobalFoundries is a semiconductor foundry with many clients and might promote ideal-scenario numbers. Earlier this year we were invited to GlobalFoundries Fab 8 in upstate New York to visit the clean room, and had a chance to interview Dr. Gary Patton, the CTO.

The Future of Silicon: An Exclusive Interview with Dr. Gary Patton, CTO of GlobalFoundries

In that interview, several interesting items came to light. First, that the CTO doesn’t necessarily have to care much about what certain processes are called: their customers know the performance of a given process regardless of the advertised ‘nm’ number based on the development tools given to them. Second, that 12LP is a series of minor tweaks to 14LPP, relating to performance bumps and improvements that come from a partial optical shrink and a slight change in manufacturing rules in the middle-line and back-end of the manufacturing process. In the past this might not have been so news worthy, however GF’s customers want to take advantage of the improved process.

Overall, GlobalFoundries has stated that its 12LP process offers a 10% performance improvement and a 15% circuit density improvement over 14LPP.

This has been interpreted in many ways, such as an extra 10% frequency at the same power, or lower power for the same frequency, and an opportunity to build smaller chips.

As part of today’s launch, AMD has clarified what the move to 12LP has meant for the Ryzen 2000-series:

  1. Top Clock Speeds lifted by ~250 MHz (~6%)
  2. All-core overclocks around 4.2 GHz
  3. ~50 mV core voltage reduction

AMD goes on to explain that at the same frequency, its new Ryzen 2000-series processors draw around 11% less power than the Ryzen 1000-series. The claims also state that this translates to +16% performance at the same power. These claims are a little muddled, as AMD has other new technologies in the 2000-series which will affect performance as well.

One interesting element is that although GF claims that there is a 15% density improvement, AMD is stating that these processors have the same die size and transistor count as the previous generation. Ultimately this seems in opposition to common sense – surely AMD would want to use smaller dies to get more chips per wafer?

Ultimately, the new processors are almost carbon copies of the old ones, both in terms of design and microarchitecture. AMD is calling the design of the cores as ‘Zen+’ to differentiate them to the previous generation ‘Zen’ design, and it mostly comes down to how the microarchitecture features are laid out on the silicon. When discussing with AMD, the best way to explain it is that some of the design of the key features has not moved – they just take up less area, leaving more dark silicon between other features.

Here is a very crude representation of features attached to a data path. On the left is the 14LPP design, and each of the six features has a specific size and connects to the bus. Between each of the features is the dark silicon – unused silicon that is either seen as useless, or can be used as a thermal buffer between high-energy parts. On the right is the representation of the 12LP design – each of the features have been reduced in size, putting more dark silicon between themselves (the white boxes show the original size of the feature). In this context, the number of transistors is the same, and the die size is the same. But if anything in the design was thermally limited by the close proximity of two features, there is now more distance between them such that they should interfere with each other less.

For reference, AMD lists the die-size of these new parts as 213mm2, containing 4.8 billion transistors, identical to the first generation silicon design. AMD confirmed that they are using 9T transistor libraries, also the same as the previous generation, although GlobalFoundries offers a 7.5T design as well.

So is Zen+ a New Microarchitecture, or Process Node Change?

Ultimately, nothing about most of the Zen+ physical design layout is new. Aside from the manufacturing process node change and likely minor adjustments, the rest of the adjustments are in firmware and support:

  • Cache latency adjustments leading to +3% IPC
  • Increased DRAM Frequency Support to DDR4-2933
  • Better voltage/frequency curves, leading to +10% performance overall
  • Better Boost Performance with Precision Boost 2
  • Better Thermal Response with XFR2
New CPUs, New Process, New Competition Improvements to the Cache Hierarchy: Lower Latency = Higher IPC
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  • rocky12345 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link

    They ran all systems at both Intel's & AMD's listed specs as such AMD's memory was at 2933MHz on Zen+ & 2666MHz on Intel's Coffee lake 8700K,they did the same for the older gen parts as well and ran those at the spec's listed for them as well.

    There have been a few other media outlets that did the same thing and got the same results or very close to the same results. AMD's memory bandwidth as in memory controller seems to give more bandwidth than Intel's does at the same speed so with Intel not running at 3200MHz like most media outlets did maybe Intel loses a lot of performance because of that and AMD lost next to nothing from not going 3200MHz. It is all just guesses on my part at the moment.

    Food for thought when Intel released the entire Coffee Lake line up they only released the z370 chip set which has full support for over clocking including the memory and almost all reviews were done with 3200MHz-3400MHz memory on the test beds even for the non K Coffee lakes CPU's. Maybe Intel knew this would happen and made sure all Coffee lakes looked their best in the reviews. For a few sites that retested once the lower tier chip sets were released the non K's using their rated memory speeds lost about 5%-7% performance in some cases a bit even more.

    I am no fanboy of any company I just put out my opinions & theories that are based off of the information we are given by the companies and as well as the media sites.
  • Maxiking - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link

    People never fail to amaze me, so you basically know nothing about the topic, yet you still managed to spit 4 paragraphs of mess, even made some "food for thought".

    Slower ram - performance regression unless you have big caches which is not the case of Intel nor AMD.
  • rocky12345 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link

    It seems pretty basic to me as to what was said in the post. It is not my problem if you do not under stand what myself and some others have said about this topic. Pretty simple slower memory less bandwidth which in turn will give less performance in memory intensive work loads such as most games. ALl you have to do is go and look at some benches in the reviews to see AMD has the upper hand when it comes to memory bandwidth even Hardware Unboxed was pretty surprised by how good AMD's memory controller when compared to Intel's. Yes Intel's can run memory at higher speeds than AMD but even with that said AMD does just fine. You are right about cache sizes neither has a overly large cache but AMD 's is bigger on the desktop class CPU's and that is most likely one of the reasons their bandwidth for memory is slightly better.
  • Maxiking - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link

    The raw bandwidth doesn't matter, it's cas latency what makes the difference here.

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/11857/memory-scalin...

    https://imgur.com/MhqKfkf

    With CL16, it doesn't look that much impressive, is it.

    Now, lower the CL latencies to something more 2k18-ish, booom.

    https://www.eteknix.com/memory-speed-large-impact-...

    Another test

    https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Ryzen-Mem...

    Almost all the popular hw reviewers don't have a clue. They tell you to OC but do not explain why and what you should accomplish by overclocking. Imagine you have some bad hynix ram which can be barelly OC from 2666 to 3000mhz but you have to loose timing from CL15 for CL20 to get there.
  • mapesdhs - Monday, May 14, 2018 - link

    schlock, the chips were run at official spec. Or are you saying it's AMD's fault that Intel doesn't officially support faster speeds? :D Also, GN showed that subtimings have become rather important for AMD CPUs; some mbds left on Auto for subtimings will make very good selections for them, giving a measurable performance advantage.
  • peevee - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link

    It is April 24th, and the page on X470 still states: "Technically the details of the chipset are also covered by the April 19th embargo, so we cannot mention exactly what makes them different to the X370 platform until then."
  • jor5 - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link

    The review is a shambles. They've gone to ground.
  • coburn_c - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link

    I have been wanting to read their take on x470..
  • risa2000 - Wednesday, April 25, 2018 - link

    It is my favorite page too.
  • mpbello - Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - link

    Today phoronix is reporting that after AMD's newest AGESA update their 2700X system is showing 10+% improvement on a number of benchmarks. It is unknown if on Windows the impact will be the same. But you see how all the many variables could explain the differences.

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